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Musings On The Neccessity Of A Sub Culture
 
# 31 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 17:40
 
 
As opposed to what, having partners who are hermaphrodites?
I don't understand if you're trying to contradict, or agree with my post you quoted.
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# 32 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 17:43
 
 
Someone said :
As opposed to what, having partners who are hermaphrodites?
I don't understand if you're trying to contradict, or agree with my post you quoted.

I am not necessarily contradicting you. Only posting my observations which have led me to believe that one's gaydar (if there is such a thing) finds it much barder to detect a bi-guy than a gayguy. The one's I have encountered all seem sporty and into women.
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# 33 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 18:09
 
 
You're not contradicting me, it's just you've jumped off the train of understanding at the same station you got on, rather then coming with me to the destination I wanted to show you.


You: "Here is my observation on Bi men: they never seem to behave stereotypically gay"

me: "That may be a perception based on reasons 'X','Y' & 'Z', etc"

You: "Here is my observation on Bi men: they never seem to behave stereotypically gay"
Reply
 
# 34 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 18:12
 
 
Someone said :
You're not contradicting me, it's just you've jumped off the train of understanding at the same station you got on, rather then coming with me to the destination I wanted to show you.


You: "Here is my observation on Bi men: they never seem to behave stereotypically gay"

me: "That may be a perception based on reasons 'X','Y' & 'Z', etc"

You: "Here is my observation on Bi men: they never seem to behave stereotypically gay"

So you are saying that the biguys in this case may be simply acting stereotypically straight? Rather than it being something say genetic?

We all know the kind of man who the common man would assume is probably gay. The ones with sterotypically gay voices for example (I think I have one of those). Or the ones like Sean from Coronation Street. I have only come across gay men that talk like that (and I accept a good few gay men don't as I met them at gaire meets). But I have never once come across a bisexual man who you would look at and say "he's probably gay". Do you understand what I mean? I;m arguing that a bisexual man mightn't be as likely to herd with gays because he is 50% straight and his interest in men mightnt be as obvious - hence reducing the incentive to herd to blend in. See?
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# 35 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:01
 
 
I understand what you mean.
Disclaimer; I'm not saying bi guys "act stereotypically straight" (with emphasis on the word 'act').
In destructively simple terms I'm claiming they probably just don't correct people about how they act. In all likelihood they and everyone else simply act as themselves, and it's up to others (for example you) to put the description of "straight acting" or whatever on it.

Being in a long term relationship with a girl is not unusual behaviour for a bisexual man, neither is a LTR with another man, but the important bit is, neither is proof that they're behaving "un-bisexually".


A bisexual person in my experience wouldn't sincerely identify themselves as simply "50% straight/gay" or such. They may go along with it is description for the sake of convenience, or laugh about it, but in a serious conversation they wouldn't in a million years accept it as a genuine description of their sexual identity.

When you consider that and then consider camp-ness and social projection.
The idea that bi guys might "pick a side" or something with regards presenting as straight or gay or indeed accidentally do so subconsciously.
You realize that as a gay person, that may be you projecting your perceptions of a camp/straight dichotomy as an attempt to understand them.
It's more likely that for a bisexual person, the amount of "%gay" and "%straight" they present as matters less to them, then being understood to be bisexual rather then a mixture of gay and straight acting.
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# 36 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:02
 
 
Yes, they may be acting 'straight' because they are closeted. They might not even like sex with women.
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# 37 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:11
 
 
Someone said :
Well the bisexual men I've known all had girlfriends or were married to women at the time. Streetfighter is the only exception.

And it only takes one exception to prove you're talking out of your hoop.
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# 38 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:28
 
 
Someone said :
Yes, they may be acting 'straight' because they are closeted. They might not even like sex with women.

Men tned to like sex. They may prefer it less, but I'd be surprise that any man has to force himself a lot to have sex.

Men's view on sex is simpler than you'd think.
A hole is a hole is a hole, for most men.

There will always be exceptions of course, but if I was a betting man, I'd never bet on a man having sex willingly and not like it one bit.


Reply
 
# 39 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:39
 
 
Someone said :
And it only takes one exception to prove you're talking out of your hoop.

In his defence rules do have exceptions.
Unless your dealing with theoretical physics, exceptions usually don't prove fallacy.
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# 40 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:40
 
 
Someone said :

In his defence rules do have exceptions.
Unless your dealing with theoretical physics, a small amount of exceptions usually don't prove fallacy.

yeah great. He's so blinkered in his views he wouldn't change if he was given a thousand examples.
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# 41 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 20:54
 
 
Well then there's no point in giving examples.

There's more to changing and developing ideas then reciting anecdotes.
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# 42 : Saturday 11-7-2015 @ 22:33
 
 
Someone said :
Well then there's no point in giving examples.

There's more to changing and developing ideas then reciting anecdotes.

ok then
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# 43 : Sunday 12-7-2015 @ 10:20
 
 
The problem is that WB Yeats is working from a very small set of data. Every rule of thumb he starts to adhere to becomes useless and potentially destructive when the complexity, diversity and fluidity of gender/orientation is considered and accepted.

But WB would rather mitigate the exceptions that don't fit his rules rather than see them as potential evidence to dismiss his rules altogether. The rules are well embedded in his psyche.
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# 44 : Sunday 12-7-2015 @ 11:07
 
 
The gay subculture spans from glitter/jazz hands to child rearing, via less advertizable practices.

I think the colorful folkloric stuff will remain as Paddy Gayckery.
The serious legal stuff will not go away, but those families will probably yearn for becoming invisible: child rearing requires privacy.
The seedy stuff will jump ship and move to another subculture.
Reply
 
# 45 : Sunday 12-7-2015 @ 11:25
 
 
Someone said :
The problem is that WB Yeats is working from a very small set of data. Every rule of thumb he starts to adhere to becomes useless and potentially destructive when the complexity, diversity and fluidity of gender/orientation is considered and accepted.

But WB would rather mitigate the exceptions that don't fit his rules rather than see them as potential evidence to dismiss his rules altogether. The rules are well embedded in his psyche.

I don't understand how it's "destructive"? I accept that personally I have only met a relatively small number of people. However there are also media and celebrity personalities in the media that sometimes fit the stereotype. I did point out I wasn't saying it's universally true. I think that some people get too sensitive over this.
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